====================================================================== CFJ 934 "The currencies created by Morendil on behalf of the Misanthropist's Group in a message of 12.07.97 to the public forum are named MMM-pounds, MMM-shillings and MMM-pence." ====================================================================== Judge: Elde Judgement: FALSE Eligible: Andre, Antimatter, Calabresi, Chuck, Crito, Elde, elJefe, Harlequin, Michael, Murphy, Oerjan, Steve, Vlad, Zefram Not eligible: Caller: Kolja A. Barred: Morendil, General Chaos Disqualified: Vanyel On hold: Swann ====================================================================== History: Called by Kolja A., Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:59:06 +0200 Assigned to Elde, Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:32:45 +0100 Judged FALSE, Mon, 18 Aug 1997 04:11:01 +0100 Published, Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:19:23 +0100 ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE Reasons and arguments: Argument is the old saw, "Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's possible", specifically in this case the fact that there is a well-defined procedure in the Rules for granting initial Names to Currencies created under the aegis of Rule 1722, but no procedure exists to change these inital Names. I further reject the arguments that Currencies legally minted under the provisions of Rule 1722 are not Nomic Properties under the definition of Rule 1011, in that the property of being named "Payment Order" and so on is granted to the Entities thus created by Rule 1576, which requires that all Currencies must have a Name, as the Caller justly notes, and by Rule 1722, which I interpret as, by implication, requiring that the name of such a Currency be that which is specified in the message which purports to create it. To reason otherwise would lead to a pitfall. If we interpret Rule 1722 as *not* requiring that the specific values of properties attached to a Currency be those specified in the creating message, but merely attaching particular conditions to the message which effects the minting a Currency, which conditions would then be irrelevant to the actual values of the corresponding properties in the newly created Currency, then we are left with a Currency which either does not have any of those properties (and thus cannot legally exist) or for which the value of those properties is indeterminate, which I find abhorrent, especially as the same fate must befall *all* Currencies so created. ====================================================================== (Caller's) Arguments: Evidence and arguments: See my message of 30.07.97 to the public forum (attached). Relevant rules: 116, 1011, 1576. (And, in principle, the other rules pertaining to the creation of currencies, their properties and the mintor's and recordkeepor's duties and abilities.) ----Att. 1: Message of 12.07.97 to the public forum (from Morendil) [header snipped to avoid confusing mail readers] H. Chancellor, I hereby announce and effect, on behalf of the Misanthropist's Group, the creation of three Currencies, with the following characteristics, as per the provisions of Rule 1722 : Name: Orders Mintor: The Misanthropist's Group Recordkeepor: Morendil MUQ: 1 Name: Payment Orders Mintor: The Misanthropist's Group Recordkeepor: Morendil MUQ: 1 Name: Transfer Orders Mintor: The Misanthropist's Group Recordkeepor: Morendil MUQ: 1 ----Att. 2: Message of 30.07.97 to the public forum (from Kolja A.) [header snipped to avoid confusing mail readers] I hereby rename the currencies created by Morendil on behalf of the Misanthropist's Group in a message of 12.07.97 to the public forum as follows: Old name New name --------------------------------------------------------- Orders MMM-pounds Payment Orders MMM-shillings Transfer Orders MMM-pence --- Remark "Wait, you can't do that! These names are a Nomic Property (NP) of these currencies and protected by 1011!" No, they are not. What _is_ an NP is the fact that they do have a name, i.e. are not nameless. This is explicitly required in 1576, and not changed by changing the names. But the particular names were given in a message to the public forum (unlike the names of rule-defined currencies like VTs, which are given in the relevant rules). So they are not Nomic Properties, after all, and not protected by 1011. Kolja A. ======================================================================