====================================================================== CFJ 877 "The texts, published as being Proposals number 2646, 2647, 2650, 2651, 2652 and 2660, are not Proposals." ====================================================================== Judge: Oerjan Judgement: TRUE Eligible: Chuck, Coren, elJefe, favor, KoJen, Michael, Morendil, Murphy, Oerjan, Steve, Swann, Vanyel, Zefram Not eligible: Caller: Andre Barred: - On hold: - ====================================================================== History: Called by Andre, Wed, 4 Sep 1996 14:12:34 +0200 (MET DST) Assigned to Oerjan, Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:22:39 +0100 Judged Sun, 8 Sep 1996 16:13:20 +0200 (MET DST) Published, Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:42:27 +0100 ====================================================================== Judgement: TRUE Reasons and arguments: First, I believe there is long and established Game Custom that when a term is used within Agora's Rules, it refers only to the Agora Entities of that name, unless the term contains a modifier like "Internomic" or "eNomic" (which BTW played a role in a scam to get the Champion title - it was incorrectly used as a synonym for Agora in the relevant Rule.) This Custom is necessary to allow us to ignore things like point transfers mandated in other Nomics, even though these nomics use the term "point" just as in Agora. Secondly, even given the above custom, one might question whether Andre had indicated in his Liaison's report that the texts were intended to become _Agora_ Proposals. After all, he did not explicitely use the term "Internomic Proposal". I believe that the important word in this respect is "clear". Andre may have indicated, although inadvertently, that the texts were so intended. He did not do so clearly, however: anyone with a knowledge of Agora Rules would realize (and at least I did) that the texts were probably intended to be Internomic Proposals, and not to be Agora Proposals. As an aside, I think this argument would hold even if 1483 had used the wording "_be_ a Proposal" rather than "become a Proposal". ====================================================================== Evidence: Message-Id: <199608131311.GAA06664@desiree.teleport.com> Received: by wing2.wing.rug.nl (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA08131; Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:12:07 +0200 From: Andre Engels Subject: OFF: Liaison's Report To: nomic-official@teleport.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:12:07 +0200 (METDST) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A Results of Referendum on Proposals 301 and 302: Both were voted on by Andre, Michael and Steve. All three voted 'FOR' on both proposals. However, Quorum of the Referendums was 5 in both cases, making both fail, so Agora will vote against. In a next posting I will propose legislation to stop this kind of unwanted effects. I will also propose to reverse our vote on these Proposals (the voting period lasts another 2 1/2 weeks or so, so we have time for that). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There are 3 new Proposals. The internal Referendum of these starts at the time of this message: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Proposal 303 Proposed by Ackanomic -------- Amend Rule 215 to read: The voting members in this Nomic are: AckaNomic, Agora, Thring and Imperial Nomic 14 and Imperial Nomic 18. There are no nonvoting members. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Proposal 304 Proposed by Ackanomic -------- A nomic game may become a member of internomic by submitting a request to the moderator. A valid request must include the name of the nomic game, the name of it's liason, an email adress for the liason, and whether the nomic game wishes to enter as a voting or nonvoting member. The moderator may deny entry to any nomic game he does not feel is qualified. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Proposal 305 Proposed by Ackanomic -------- Amend the rule intially numbered as Rule 215 to read: It is the duty of the moderator to maintain a list of all voting and nonvoting member nomics. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There are no Judgements asked or delivered and no proposals decided. Andre Message-Id: <199608221705.KAA05682@desiree.teleport.com> Received: by wing3.wing.rug.nl (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA05440; Thu, 22 Aug 1996 19:07:14 +0200 From: Andre Engels Subject: OFF: Liaison's Report: New Proposal To: nomic-official@teleport.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 19:07:14 METDST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A There is a new Internomic Proposal, number 306. The internal Referendum on the Proposal starts as of this message. Andre New Proposal: =================================================== Proposal 306 Proposed by: Thring ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Whenever a proposal is accepted, the member nomic that proposed it gains two points. ====================================================================== (Caller's) Arguments: Rule 1483 states: "A Proposal is created whenever a Proposing Entity delivers some collection of text to the Promotor with the clear indication that that text is intended to become a Proposal..." No other Rule, or other part of given Rule, gives any method of a text to become a Proposal. However, the posting of these so-called Proposals clearly intended them to BE Proposals, not to BECOME thus, and so does not count as a creation of such a Proposal. ======================================================================