From owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Fri Apr 12 08:16:12 1996 Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA10786 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:16:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA21142; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:01:18 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA21084 for nomic-official-outgoing; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from torii.triple-i.com (torii.triple-i.com [192.94.150.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA21051 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siesta (siesta+.triple-i.com [192.94.150.7]) by torii.triple-i.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA18052 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:00:38 -0700 Received: from pak by siesta (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12991; Fri, 12 Apr 96 06:00:37 PDT Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 06:00:37 PDT From: jlc@triple-i.com (Jeff Caruso) Message-Id: <9604121300.AA12991@siesta> Received: by pak (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19185; Fri, 12 Apr 96 06:00:36 PDT To: nomic-official@teleport.com Subject: OFF: Judgement of CFJ 865: TRUE Cc: jlc@triple-i.com Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO ====================================================================== JUDGEMENT OF CFJ 865 Whenever the Rules place some significance on the time when some mail message is received by a Player, this should be interpreted to mean the time when such a message is received by the email account corresponding to that Player's email address; as a consequence, a mail message is legally received when the machine which stores this account's mail receives it, as opposed to when that Player actually reads eir mail, and further, irrespective of whether such mail is ever actually read by a Player. ====================================================================== Judge: Steve Judgement: TRUE Caller: Morendil Barred: Kelly On Hold: dcuman Eligible: Andre, Chuck, Coren, Doug, elJefe, favor, Jtael, KoJen, Michael, Murphy, Narcisse, Oerjan, Steve, Swann, Vanyel, Zefram ====================================================================== History: Called by Morendil, Mon, 8 Apr 1996 02:26:06 +0100 Assigned to Steve, Mon, 8 Apr 96 06:59:02 PDT Judged TRUE by Steve, Fri, 12 Apr 1996 19:17:10 +1000 (EST) ====================================================================== Arguments : the Rules, not being concerned with technicalities such as crashed hard disks, mail transport protocols, and the like, use "send" and "receive" only in the broadest meaning of the terms. This Statement is consistent with at least one past Judgement, that of CFJ 707, which ruled that the time of effect of a post to the PF corresponds to the time when that message is received by the listserver. By analogy, a message to a Player presumably is "sent" when it is first handled by a mail transport protocol, and "received" when it reaches a machine which holds the account for a particular mail address. It is my considered opinion that this Statement is also congruent with the best interests of the Game, in that if a message is legally received when a Player actually reads it, a Promotor could decide the order of submission of Proposals by reading them in a particular order, for instance. In fact, since a good case could be made that mail lost through a technical glitch is not conceptually different from mail deleted through the voluntary act of hitting a 'delete' key, the possible consequences are even less palatable than a simple reordering of events. It would in my considered opinion be a not unreasonable extrapolation of previous Game Custom to assume that whenever some message of legal significance is lost, it has legally taken effect at the time it first left the sending Player's account or reached the receiving Player's account, or the Public Forum listserver, even if a second posting may be necessary to ensure that the information is recovered. -[Morendil]- Nihilism should begin with oneself. ====================================================================== Decision of Judge Steve: TRUE I Judge that the Statement is TRUE. Judge Oerjan ruled in CFJ 866 that a Player receives a message when the message enters eir "normal technical domain of control", a superb definition which it would have been well beyond the ability of a Judge, such as myself, who lacks Judge Oerjan's familiarity with technical workings of the Internet, to devise. The Sponsoring by Chuck and Kelly, two other Players of considerable technical expertise, of a Concurring Opinion applauding Oerjan's definition, seems to me to add significant further reasons for accepting the definition. What remains is only to verify that the Statement of this CFJ is consistent with Oerjan's Judgement, although it is phrased in different language. Specifically: is the time when a message is received by the email account corresponding to that Player's email address the time when that message enters that Player's normal technical domain of control? To the extent that one such as myself who has only a superficial knowledge of such things as mail spools, file servers, and the like, is competent to understand the question and make a judgement upon it, it seems to me that it is. So I Judge the Statement TRUE. Steve Gardner | Some people lose their sense of Dept. of Philosophy, Monash Uni. | perspective. I've lost my sense gardner@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au | of scale. -- Will Self