From nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Thu May 18 19:14:08 1995 Return-Path: nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA11802 for ; Thu, 18 May 1995 19:06:25 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id RAA22137 for nomic-official-outgoing; Thu, 18 May 1995 17:05:20 -0700 Received: from mizar.astro.indiana.edu (mizar.astro.indiana.edu [129.79.160.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21982 for ; Thu, 18 May 1995 17:04:59 -0700 Received: from poverty by mizar.astro.indiana.edu with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0sCFYj-0001oZC; Thu, 18 May 95 19:04 EST Received: by poverty.bloomington.in.us (V1.17-beta/Amiga) id <31vb@poverty.bloomington.in.us>; Thu, 18 May 95 19:00:12 EST5 Date: Thu, 18 May 95 19:00:12 EST5 Message-Id: <9505190000.31vb@poverty.bloomington.in.us> From: kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us (Kelly Martin) To: nomic-official@teleport.com Subject: OFF: CFJ767: Judgement Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Status: RO ====================================================================== JUDGEMENT OF CFJ 767 (The Scorekeepor's report of April 24, 1995 is in error,...) ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE Judge: eljefe Eligible to Judge: Elde, TAL, JonRock, Xanadu, KoJen, Vlad, elJefe, Michael, Tang, Steve, Vanyel, Swann, Dave Bowen, Ian, Chuck Judge: Blob, defaulted Eligible to Judge: Elde, TAL, JonRock, Blob, Xanadu, KoJen, Vlad, elJefe, Michael, Tang, Steve, Vanyel, Swann, Dave Bowen, Ian, Chuck Judge: Oerjan, defaulted Eligible to Judge: Elde, TAL, Oerjan, Blob, Xanadu, KoJen, Pascal, elJefe, Michael, Chuck, Tang, Steve, Vanyel, Swann, Dave Bowen, Jeffrey Caller: Andre Scorekeepor: Oerjan loses 10 Points for defaulting on Judgement Blob loses 10 Points for defaulting on Judgement elJefe receives 5 Points for speedy Judgement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- History: Called Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:26:11 METDST by Andre Assigned Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:15 UTC to Oerjan Defaulted Thu, 4 May 1995 22:15 UTC by Oerjan --> Oerjan loses 10 Points for defaulting Reassigned Mon, 08 May 1995 06:40 UTC to Blob Defaulted Mon, 15 May 1995 06:40 UTC by Blob --> Blob loses 10 Points for defaulting Reassigned Tue, 16 May 1995 00:00 UTC to elJefe Judged FALSE Wed, 17 May 1995 09:25:12 -0400 by elJefe --> elJefe receives 5 Points ====================================================================== Statement: "The Scorekeepor's report of April 24, 1995 is in error, in that the Salaries as claimed to be received by Kelly, Andre and Steve are too high." Barred: Kelly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Arguments: Andre is said to have had a Salary of 8 points. However Rule 1040 clearly states he has a Salary of 5 points. Rule 1007 defers to it. In my opinion if 'XXX shall receive a Salary of 5 points' takes precedence over 'XXX shall receive a Salary of 3 points' the resulting Salary should be 5 points, not 3. For Kelly it's more or less the same, this time Rule 889 being the sole responsible for eir salary. Rule 910 states that Steve, as Justiciar, should not receive a Salary. This Rule takes precedence over Rule 1007 which says e should. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- References: Scorekeepor's report of April 24, 1995: Scores as of 24 Apr 1995 at 03:02 GMT: Andre +167.8 (+ 42.2 = 210.0) 0 blots Kelly +67.3 (+ 177.7 = 245.0) 2 blots KoJen +39.0 (+ 276.0 = 315.0) 0 blots Jason +34.0 (+ 176.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Dave Bowen +27.0 (+ 218.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Tang +25.3 (+ 184.7 = 210.0) 0 blots Jeffrey D +22.0 (+ 223.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Oerjan +22.0 (+ 188.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large +19.0 (+ 261.0 = 280.0) 0 blots elJefe +17.0 (+ 228.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Michael +15.0 (+ 230.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Donna & Co. +13.0 (+ 197.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Elde +13.0 (+ 197.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Swann +11.0 (+ 199.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Vanyel +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Chuck +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Blob +3.0 (+ 207.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Coren +3.0 (+ 207.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Steve +2.6 (+ 242.4 = 245.0) 1 blots JonRock +0.0 (+ 210.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Vlad -49.0 (+ 259.0 = 210.0) 2 blots Reform +2595.9 Abelian +793.2 Volkspartei +105.0 GSHN Contest Fund +25.0 Wanderers Contest Fund +20.0 Scam Contest Fund +2.0 Dictator Contest Fund +0.0 ====================================================================== Scores as of 17 Apr 1995 at 00:01 GMT: Andre +141.8 (+ 58.2 = 200.0) 0 blots Steve +53.0 (+ 180.3 = 233.3) 1 blots Kelly +39.0 (+ 194.3 = 233.3) 2 blots Chuck +34.0 (+ 199.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Vanyel +29.0 (+ 204.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Jason +21.0 (+ 179.0 = 200.0) 0 blots KoJen +20.0 (+ 280.0 = 300.0) 0 blots Jeffrey D +19.0 (+ 214.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Oerjan +19.0 (+ 181.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Dave Bowen +18.0 (+ 215.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Coren +14.0 (+ 186.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Blob +13.0 (+ 187.0 = 200.0) 1 blots Donna & Co. +13.0 (+ 187.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Elde +13.0 (+ 187.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Michael +13.0 (+ 220.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large +4.0 (+ 262.7 = 266.7) 0 blots Swann +3.0 (+ 197.0 = 200.0) 0 blots JonRock +0.0 (+ 200.0 = 200.0) 0 blots elJefe +0.0 (+ 233.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Vlad -49.0 (+ 249.0 = 200.0) 2 blots Reform +2477.8 Abelian +793.2 Volkspartei +105.0 GSHN Contest Fund +25.0 Scam Contest Fund +2.0 Dictator Contest Fund +0.0 Wanderers Contest Fund +0.0 01 Apr 1995 at 71:21 GMT Steve OFF: Assessor's Report: Results for Proposals 1554-1562 Andre +19.0 = +160.8 (+ 39.2 = 200.0) 0 blots Blob -5.0 = +8.0 (+ 192.0 = 200.0) 1 blots Dave Bowen +9.0 = +27.0 (+ 206.3 = 233.3) 0 blots elJefe +19.0 = +19.0 (+ 214.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Jason +9.0 = +30.0 (+ 170.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Kelly +9.0 = +48.0 (+ 185.3 = 233.3) 2 blots KoJen +16.0 = +36.0 (+ 264.0 = 300.0) 0 blots Michael +9.0 = +22.0 (+ 211.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Steve +9.0 = +62.0 (+ 171.3 = 233.3) 1 blots Swann +9.0 = +12.0 (+ 188.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large +13.0 = +17.0 (+ 249.7 = 266.7) 0 blots 17 Apr 1995 at 14:44 GMT Michael BUS: point transfer Michael -10.0 = +12.0 (+ 221.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Wanderers Contest Fund +10.0 = +10.0 17 Apr 1995 at 15:22 GMT Kelly OFF: CFJ764: Judgement Michael +3.0 = +15.0 (+ 218.3 = 233.3) 0 blots 17 Apr 1995 at 17:08 GMT Chuck BUS: Point Transfer Chuck -34.0 = +0.0 (+ 233.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Reform +34.0 = +2511.8 18 Apr 1995 at 00:57 GMT Blob BUS: Removing blots Player Blob loses 1 blots. Blob -5.0 = +3.0 (+ 197.0 = 200.0) 0 blots 18 Apr 1995 at 14:50 GMT Kelly OFF: CFJ765: Reassignment Coren -2.0 = +12.0 (+ 188.0 = 200.0) 0 blots Kelly +1.0 = +49.0 (+ 184.3 = 233.3) 2 blots 19 Apr 1995 at 02:51 GMT Kelly OFF: CFJ762; Judgement 19 Apr 1995 at 06:01 GMT Steve BUS: point transfer Kelly +8.3 = +57.3 (+ 176.0 = 233.3) 2 blots Reform +53.7 = +2565.5 Steve -62.0 = +0.0 (+ 233.3 = 233.3) 1 blots 19 Apr 1995 at 06:52 GMT Vanyel BUS: Point transfer Reform +18.4 = +2583.9 Steve +0.6 = +0.6 (+ 232.7 = 233.3) 1 blots Vanyel -29.0 = +0.0 (+ 233.3 = 233.3) 0 blots Wanderers Contest Fund +10.0 = +20.0 19 Apr 1995 at 18:32 GMT (n/a) BUS: New Player Registration New player: Tang (TANG) Tang +25.3 = +25.3 (+ 184.7 = 210.0) 0 blots 21 Apr 1995 at 07:00 GMT Coren Point transfers Coren -12.0 = +0.0 (+ 210.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Reform +12.0 = +2595.9 21 Apr 1995 at 07:00 GMT Coren Promotor's Report, 21 Apr 1995: New Proposals 1563-1580 Andre -1.0 = +159.8 (+ 50.2 = 210.0) 0 blots elJefe -2.0 = +17.0 (+ 228.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Kelly -2.0 = +55.3 (+ 189.7 = 245.0) 2 blots Steve -3.0 = -2.4 (+ 247.4 = 245.0) 1 blots Swann -4.0 = +8.0 (+ 202.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large -1.0 = +16.0 (+ 264.0 = 280.0) 0 blots 21 Apr 1995 at 07:01 GMT Coren BUS: Coren is leaving, for a little while Player Vanyel becomes Distributor Player Vanyel becomes Assistant Player Vanyel becomes Promotor 21 Apr 1995 at 08:39 GMT Coren BUS: Coren going On Hold Player Coren goes on hold 24 Apr 1995 at 00:00 GMT (n/a) Pensions Coren +3.0 = +3.0 (+ 207.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Jeffrey D +3.0 = +22.0 (+ 223.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Oerjan +3.0 = +22.0 (+ 188.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Swann +3.0 = +11.0 (+ 199.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large +3.0 = +19.0 (+ 261.0 = 280.0) 0 blots 24 Apr 1995 at 00:00 GMT Salaries * Player Kelly receives Ambassador salary. * Player Vanyel receives Archivist salary. * Player Vanyel does not receive Assistant salary (less than 5 days in Office) * Player Steve receives Assessor salary. * Player Andre receives Banker salary. * Player Kelly receives Clerk of the Courts salary. * Player Vanyel does not receive Distributor salary (less than 5 days in Office) * Player Andre receives Herald salary. * Player Vanyel does not receive Promotor salary (less than 5 days in Office) * Player KoJen receives Registrar salary. * Player Chuck receives Rulekeepor salary. * Player Kelly receives Scorekeepor salary. * Player Jason receives Tabulator salary. Andre +8.0 = +167.8 (+ 42.2 = 210.0) 0 blots Chuck +5.0 = +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Jason +4.0 = +34.0 (+ 176.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Kelly +12.0 = +67.3 (+ 177.7 = 245.0) 2 blots KoJen +3.0 = +39.0 (+ 276.0 = 315.0) 0 blots Steve +5.0 = +2.6 (+ 242.4 = 245.0) 1 blots Vanyel +5.0 = +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots 24 Apr 1995 at 03:01 GMT end of score file Scores as of 24 Apr 1995 at 03:02 GMT: Andre +167.8 (+ 42.2 = 210.0) 0 blots Kelly +67.3 (+ 177.7 = 245.0) 2 blots KoJen +39.0 (+ 276.0 = 315.0) 0 blots Jason +34.0 (+ 176.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Dave Bowen +27.0 (+ 218.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Tang +25.3 (+ 184.7 = 210.0) 0 blots Jeffrey D +22.0 (+ 223.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Oerjan +22.0 (+ 188.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Troublemaker at Large +19.0 (+ 261.0 = 280.0) 0 blots elJefe +17.0 (+ 228.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Michael +15.0 (+ 230.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Donna & Co. +13.0 (+ 197.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Elde +13.0 (+ 197.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Swann +11.0 (+ 199.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Vanyel +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Chuck +5.0 (+ 240.0 = 245.0) 0 blots Blob +3.0 (+ 207.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Coren +3.0 (+ 207.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Steve +2.6 (+ 242.4 = 245.0) 1 blots JonRock +0.0 (+ 210.0 = 210.0) 0 blots Vlad -49.0 (+ 259.0 = 210.0) 2 blots Reform +2595.9 Abelian +793.2 Volkspartei +105.0 GSHN Contest Fund +25.0 Wanderers Contest Fund +20.0 Scam Contest Fund +2.0 Dictator Contest Fund +0.0 Notice: Information as to the number of Blots possessed by each Player is for advisory purposes only. This Report does not in any way allege to be factual and correct on the matter of anything other than the number of Points held by various Entities, and the nature and size of the various changes to those holdings. -- kelly martin I have been told that when a large group of people believe in a fantasy, it is called a culture. When a small group believes, it is called a cult. When two people believe in a fantasy, it is called love; and when one person believes, it is called psychosis. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rule 1007/0 (Mutable, MI=1) Default Salary of Officers Officers (excluding Viziers, Ordinancekeepors, and any other Officers whose duties pertain only to a single Group) shall receive a salary of 3 Points per week, unless another Rule explicitly states another salary. All salaries shall be paid at the beginning of each Nomic week, on condition that the Officer has been in Office for at least five days. The second paragraph of this Rule takes precedence over all Rules that determine payday differently. (*Was: 849*) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rule 889/1 (Mutable, MI=1) Clerk of the Courts There shall exist an Office "Clerk of the Courts", who shall have general responsibility over administering Calls for Judgement, as outlined in the Rules. The Clerk's salary shall be five points. History: ... Amended(1) by Proposal 1441, Feb. 21 1995 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rule 910/2 (Mutable, MI=1) The Justiciar Let there be an Office of Justiciar. The Justiciar shall have the duties of judging appeals when serving as Justice. E shall receive no weekly salary. A vacant Office of Justiciar is filled in the usual manner, but the Speaker or Clerk of the Courts may not become Justiciar. History: ... Amended(1) by Proposal 1447, Feb. 21 1995 Amended(2) by Proposal 1511, Mar. 24 1995 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rule 1040/0 (Mutable, MI=1) Marks There shall be a new unit of currency known as Marks. Any Player may possess zero or more Marks, but not less than zero. Any Player may give any number of Marks to any other Player, as long as that Player will not possess less than zero Marks at the end of the trade. There shall also be an entity known as the Bank, which shall possess Marks exactly like a Player. There shall also be an Office known as the Banker. The Banker shall keep an accurate record of how many Marks each Player possesses, and how many Marks are possessed by the Bank. The Banker shall recieve a salary of 5 Points after every seven days in Office. All Mark transfers shall be requested by a message to the server. The Banker shall send to the Public Forum at least once per Nomic week a report containing the balance and all changes in the Mark accounts of all Players and all Nomic Entities that may possess Marks. (*Was: 516*) ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE The CFJ claims an error in the Scorekeepor's report of April 24, following denial by the Scorekeepor of the associated Claim of Error. The claim is that the salaries received by Kelly, Andre and Steve are too high. Rule 1007/0 states that "Officers ... shall receive a salary of 3 Points per week, unless another rule explicitly states another salary." Rules 889/0, 902/0, and 1040/0 award salaries of 5 Points to the CotC, Scorekeepor, and Banker, respectively. Rule 910/2 states that the Justiciar shall receive no weekly salary. Rule 1070/2 gives the Ambassador 2 Points per week as salary. The score report shows Kelly receiving 5 Points as CotC, 5 Points as Scorekeepor, and 2 Points as Ambassador, Andre receiving 3 Points as Herald and 5 Points as Banker, and Steve receiving 5 Points as Assessor; all these are reported as being awarded on 24 Apr 1995 at 00:00 GMT. The argument is that the salaries should not amalgamate, but be treated as a conflict in the definition of "salary" and that only one salary should be awarded, to be determined by the conflict resolution rules. This is a little like saying that nobody should get F-A points because Rule 312 (each player who Voted gets 1 Point at the end of the Voting Period) takes precedence over Rule 833 (when the voting period is over, the proposer gets F-A points). In fact, there is no conflict; both awards can take place and do not interfere with each other. Or, similarly, the claim that because the Voting Periods for a set of Proposals all refer to the same time span, voters get 1 Point regardless of how many proposals were voted upon. This was disposed of in a recent Claim of Error. The use of the word "salary" indicates compensation for duties performed. Its clear meaning is that the points received are tied to the Office held. Each Office is associated with a separate salary, even if several are held by the same Player, just as each Proposal is associated with a separate Voting Period, even several share the same time span. Rule 1007/0 does not clearly state that holders of multiple Offices receive multiple salaries, but it does not state the contrary either. The interpretation of the Scorekeepor, that they shall so receive them, is in accordance with Game Custom and common sense. Thus Kelly's and Andre's salaries, as reported, are clearly consistent with the Rules. The statement in Rule 910/2 is rather interesting; it states that the Justiciar shall receive no salary. If this is taken as actually forbidding the player to receive Officer salaries, then (A.) it conflicts with Rule 1007/0 paragraph 2, and (B.) does not explicitly state another salary than the default 3 Points. Rule 910/2 claims precedence in such conflicts, and therefore Steve's salaries should total 8 Points. On the other hand, if the interpretation is that it simply makes the Justiciar salary 0 Points, then there is no conflict either with Rule 910/2 or with the awarding of the Assessor salary. This is the interpretation I would endorse. But in any case, it is not true that Steve's salary is too high, as claimed. - elJefe, Judge ****************************************************************** Dr. Jeffrey L. Caruso Information International ======================================================================