From nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Thu Apr 13 17:18:19 1995 Return-Path: nomic-official-owner@teleport.com Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.11]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29060 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 17:18:16 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id PAA22582 for nomic-official-outgoing; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:13:15 -0700 Received: from mizar.astro.indiana.edu (mizar.astro.indiana.edu [129.79.160.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA22548 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:13:03 -0700 Received: from poverty by mizar.astro.indiana.edu with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0rzX8H-0001VIC; Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:13 EST Received: by poverty.bloomington.in.us (V1.17-beta/Amiga) id <2pc9@poverty.bloomington.in.us>; Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:05:14 EST5 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 17:05:14 EST5 Message-Id: <9504132205.2pc9@poverty.bloomington.in.us> From: kelly@poverty.bloomington.in.us (Kelly Martin) To: nomic-official@teleport.com Subject: OFF: CFJ763: Judgement Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Status: RO ====================================================================== JUDGEMENT OF CFJ 763 (The correct interpretation of 1443 is, that...) ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE Judge: Dave Bowen Eligible to Judge: Blob, Coren, Dave Bowen, Chuck, Elde, elJefe, Jeffrey, Kelly, KoJen, Michael, Pascal, Steve, Swann, Vanyel, Xanadu Caller: TAL Scorekeepor: Dave Bowen receives 5 Points for speedy Judgement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- History: Called Tue, 11 Apr 95 04:00:55 SET Assigned Tue, 11 Apr 1995 05:45 UTC to Dave Bowen Judged FALSE Tue, 11 Apr 1995 10:18:54 -0500 by Dave Bowen --> Dave Bowen receives 5 Points ====================================================================== Statement: "The correct interpretation of 1443 is, that any Player who submits a Proposal that passes and who has posted *any* proto-PROPOSAL to the Public Forum within the given time limits, receives two points." Barred Player: Andre ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Arguments: 1443 states that "A proposal which passes, and which was proto-proposed in the same *form*" earns its submitter two points. Well, what is the form of a proto-Proposal? It can not mean `exactly the same' as that is contradictory to the usual meaning of the word `form': form \'fo_.rm\ n 1: SHAPE, STRUCTURE 2: a body esp. of a person : FIGURE 3: the essential nature of a thing 4: established manner of doing a thing or saying something 5: FORMULA 6: a printed or typed document with blank spaces for insertion of requested information 7: CEREMONY, CONVENTIONALITY 8: manner or style of performing according to recognized standards 9: a long seat : BENCH 10: a frame model of the human figure used for displaying clothes 11: MOLD 12: type or plates in a frame ready for printing 13: MODE, KIND, VARIETY 14: orderly method of arrangement; also : a particular kind or instance of such arrangement 15: the structural element, plan, or design of a work of art 16: a bounded surface or volume 17: a grade in a British secondary school or in some American private schools 18: a table with information on the past performances of racehorses 19: known ability to perform; also : condition (as of an athlete) suitable for performing 20: one of the ways in which a word is changed to show difference in use So the question is, when was a Proposal submitted in the same form as the proto? This can only be so, when the proto obeyed the same Rules concerning the form as the Proposals. No more. Specifically, nothing is said about the similarity in *content* of proto and Proposal. Therefore *any* proto posted to the Public Forum within the given time limit would seem to fulfill that requirement. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- References: Rule 1443/0 (Mutable, MI=1) Bonus for Proto-Proposing A Proposal may be proto-Proposed by sending it to the Public Forum and identifying it as a proto-Proposal. A proposal which passes, and which was proto-proposed in the same form between four and fourteen days before being submitted as a proposal, shall earn its proposer an extra two points at the end of the voting period. ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE Explanation: As a noted U.S. Supreme Court Justice (Brennan, I think) commented about pornography, "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it.", so it is in this case. TAL's suggestion that same form means any proto-proposal at all is totaly specious (bovine excrement might be a better term). Like the good Justice I will not attempt to give a complete definition of "being in the same form". I think that the majority of the Players are quite capable of recognizing it when they see it. ====================================================================== -- kelly martin I have been told that when a large group of people believe in a fantasy, it is called a culture. When a small group believes, it is called a cult. When two people believe in a fantasy, it is called love; and when one person believes, it is called psychosis.