From - Mon Jan 15 11:22:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: from gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au ([131.170.42.16]) by osgood.mail.mindspring.net (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id t657a5.ifh.30ahi43 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:48:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA11044 for agora-official-list; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:45:13 GMT Received: from fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (fw-in.serc.rmit.edu.au [131.170.42.1]) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11041 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:45:10 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA31383 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:52:34 +1100 (EST) Received: from rfx-64-6-196-132.users.reflexcom.com(64.6.196.132) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au via smap (V2.1) id xma031381; Mon, 15 Jan 01 17:52:17 +1100 Received: (from wesc@localhost) by fozzie.antitribu.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16831 for agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:24:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wesc) From: Wes Contreras Message-Id: <200101150724.XAA16831@fozzie.antitribu.com> Subject: OFF: CFJ 1257 Judged TRUE To: agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (agora-off) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au Precedence: bulk Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: t657a5.ifh.30ahi43 ============================== CFJ 1257 ============================== Peekee is an Oligarch. ======================================================================== Called by: Murphy Judge: Kelly Judgement: TRUE Judge selection: Eligible: Kelly, lee, pTang, Steve Not eligible: Caller: Murphy Barred: - Had eir turn: Blob, Chuck, Crito, David, Elysion, Peekee, t, Wes Already served: - Defaulted: - Previously Defaulted: Harlequin, Sherlock By request: harvel, Michael, Palnatoke, t, Taral On Hold: Blob, Michael, Oerjan Zombie: Anthony, Harlequin, Novalis, Schneidster ======================================================================== History: Called by Murphy: 18 Dec 2000 14:14:12 -0800 Assigned to Kelly: 08 Jan 2001 03:08:28 -0800 Judged TRUE by Kelly: 13 Jan 2001 01:10:17 -0500 Judgement Distributed: As of this message ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: Peekee's Oligarch bid won on 11/20, but VTs had been legislated out of existence by that time. Did the debt/bid continue to exist, as Proposal 4090 assumes? If so, then it was converted into Stems on 12/5 and paid on 12/17. Rule 1936 (e) specifies that the Auctioneer (or, since e later went On Hold, the Speaker) should have forgiven the debt, but that did not actually happen prior to Peekee's satisfying the bid. It is also unclear whether Peekee was billed by the Assessor, rather than being billed by direct operation of the Rules. If e was indeed billed by the Assessor, then e may still be penalized now for paying eir bid late, although eir lateness is understandable in this particular case. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: Evidence, part 1 of 5: VTs are destroyed (excerpts) http://www.escribe.com/games/agora-official/m755.html Subj: OFF: Assessor's Report for Proposal 4085 From: t Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:35:09 Voting on Proposal 4084 concluded: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:18:55 -0600 ====================================================================== Text of Adopted Proposals ====================================================================== Proposal #4085 by Blob, AI=2 Playing Roles 1.2 Repeal Rule 1696 (Voting Tokens) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence, part 2 of 5: Peekee's Bid wins (excerpt) http://www.escribe.com/games/agora-official/m761.html Subj: OFF: Oligarchy auction result From: Michael Norrish Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:37:50 I hereby announce that by virtue of being the only voter, Peekee has won a Low Oligarchy position. He owes the Bank ... 1 VT. Well, at least that's what he bid. But the rules for Oligarchy Auctions say that the auction currency is Stems. Moreover, I believe the effect of the Roles proposal was to destroy all VTs.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence, part 3 of 5: VT debts and bids converted to Stems (excerpts) Message-ID: Subj: OFF: Assessor's Voting Report for Proposals 4088-4090 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:14:15 +0200 (EET) From: t Voting on Proposal 4090 concluded: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:59:13 -0600 ====================================================================== Text of Adopted Proposals ====================================================================== Proposal #4090 by Steve, AI=2 Debt conversion Create a Rule entitled "Debt conversion" with Power = 2, with the following text: Upon the creation of this Rule, all outstanding debts and liabilities denominated in Voting Tokens, Indulgence Auction Tokens, or Proposal Notes, are converted into debts for an equal number of Stems. Where the original debts or liabilities arose in connection with the conduct of an Auction, satisfaction of the converted Stem debts constitutes satisfaction of the debts arising from the Auction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence, part 4 of 5: Peekee pays the converted Bid (excerpt) http://www.escribe.com/games/agora-business/m1966.html Subj: BUS: Re: DIS: Oligarch Peekee? From: Alan Riddell (view other messages by this author) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 07:04:00 I hereby pay my 1 Stem debt, so that I can take my position as an Oligarch. Please not that my voting on any Proposal as an Oligarch will go to the highest bidder (an informal auction). If nobody pays me to vote then I may or may not declare myself present on the given proposal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Evidence, part 5 of 5: Rule 1936/4 (Power=2) (excerpts) Auctioning Positions in the Oligarchy (e) Defaulting: a winning bidder has one week from the time e is billed by the Auctioneer for eir winning bid in which to pay the bill. If the bill remains unpaid for more than one week, then the winning bidder is considered to have defaulted. In that case, the Auctioneer shall forgive the debt and penalise the defaulting bidder 2 Blots. When a winning bidder pays the bill for eir winning bid in the Auction, e becomes a Low Oligarch. ======================================================================== Judge's Arguments: The facts are undisputed and known; I will not summarize them. The legal questions appear to be: 1. Was the liability arising from the Oligarchy Auction initiated on November 10th denominated in Stems or in VTs? 2. If this liability was denominated in VTs, was the Rule enacted by Proposal 4090 successful in converting that liability into a Debt in Stems? 3. If that Debt was successfully created, did Peekee successfully satisfy it and thereby become an Oligarch? I conclude that all three of these questions are true, and thus that Peekee become an Oligarch on 17 Dec 2000 and remained one at least until the date CFJ 1257 was called, 18 Dec 2000 (one day later). As to the first question, it is my opinion that the Auction Currency for a given Auction is fixed at the time the Auction begins; subsequent changes in the Rules do not affect an already-initiated Auction unless a contrary purpose to do so is expressly indicated in the new Rules. Proposal 4085 altered the Rules relating to Auctions such that the Auction Currency for all Oligarchy Auctions initiated after its adoption, but did not expressly alter past Auctions. Furthermore, changing the Auction Currency of a running Auction midstream seems, to me, like a really dumb idea, and so I think if the Players want to do that they should say so explicitly. The Continuity Principle does not apply because the alteration in the Oligarchy Auction Rules did not affect that particular Auction, as its properties were fixed at the time the Auction began. Therefore, the Auction Currency of the Oligarchy Auction initiated 10 November was, at all times, VTs, and so the liability which arose from it was denominated in VTs. As to the second question, it appears clear to me that the liability which arose from the Auction of 10 November is squarely within the ambit of Proposal 4090's scope, and as such the Rule created by Proposal 4090 successfully converted that liability into a Debt of 1 Stem. I conclude that a "Debt" is nothing more than a liability denominated in Property. A liability denominated in something which is not Property is not a Debt, but that in no way hampers its status as a liability or its enforceability as such. Nor do I see any other impediment to the operation of that Rule, and as such I find that as of the adoption of Proposal 4090, Peekee's liability of 1 VT was converted to a Debt of 1 Stem. As to the third question, I find that Peekee did in fact transfer one Stem (this is not disputed) after Proposal 4090 converted the Auction liability to a Debt in Stems for the purpose of satisfying that debt. There is one problem: the one week time limit in Rule 1936 had elapsed; Peekee had defaulted. However, Rule 1936 does not prevent a Player who has defaulted from becoming an Oligarch nonetheless if e manages to pay the bill before the Grand Warden of the Oligarchy forgives the debt. I can find no evidence that the GWotO forgave this debt (as was required of em by the Rules) before Proposal 4090 was adopted. Therefore, Peekee's satisfaction of this debt fulfilled the ultimate clause of Rule 1936 (as altered by the Rule created by Proposal 4090), thus causing em to become an Oligarch (even though e had previously defaulted). I would order the GWotO taken out and spanked for dereliction of duty, but I lack the authority to do so. ======================================================================== Judge's Evidence: ========================================================================