From - Mon Jan 15 11:21:56 2001 Return-Path: Received: from gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au ([131.170.42.16]) by farley.mail.mindspring.net (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id t656q0.36oo.37kbi1c for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 01:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA10984 for agora-official-list; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:37:16 GMT Received: from fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (fw-in.serc.rmit.edu.au [131.170.42.1]) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10981 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:37:13 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA31367 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:44:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from rfx-64-6-196-132.users.reflexcom.com(64.6.196.132) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au via smap (V2.1) id xma031365; Mon, 15 Jan 01 17:44:12 +1100 Received: (from wesc@localhost) by fozzie.antitribu.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16805 for agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:16:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wesc) From: Wes Contreras Message-Id: <200101150716.XAA16805@fozzie.antitribu.com> Subject: OFF: CFJ 1253 Judged FALSE To: agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (agora-off) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:16:12 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au Precedence: bulk Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: t656q0.36oo.37kbi1c ============================== CFJ 1253 ============================== Novalis and Harlequin are not Zombies. ======================================================================== Called by: Andre Judge: Crito Judgement: FALSE Judge selection: Eligible: Crito, David, Elysion, Kelly, lee, Murphy, pTang, Steve Not eligible: Caller: Andre Barred: Elysion, Novalis, Harlequin Had eir turn: Blob, Chuck, Peekee, t, Wes Already served: - Defaulted: - Previously Defaulted: Harlequin, Sherlock By request: harvel, Michael, Palnatoke, Taral On Hold: Blob, Michael, Oerjan Zombie: Anthony, Harlequin, Novalis, Schneidster ======================================================================== History: Called by Andre: Assigned to Crito: 06 Jan 2001 19:20:15 -0800 Judged FALSE by Crito: 12 Jan 2001 14:32:47 -0500 Judgement Distributed: As of this message ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: If the mode of Voting is Public (as it has already been for some time), the only way to Vote is by sending a message to the Public Forum. It is game custom that the Master of a Zombie can cause that Zombie to cast Votes (on Democratic Proposals). But that means that if e does so, e causes that Zombie to post to the Public Forum, which causes that Zombie to become Noisy (see Rule 1042) and thus the Zombie ceases to be a Zombie and the Zombie Master ceases to own them (see Rule 1886). At least once since the last time they became Zombies, Novalis and Harlequin have voted in this way, thus losing their property of being a Zombie. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: EXHIBIT A: Assessor's Report for Proposals 4036-4041 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Agoa Nomic Voting Report for Proposals 4036-4041 Date of last Report: 2 Aug 2000 Date of this Report: 7 Aug 2000 Current Voting Mode: Public =========================================================================== Voting on Proposals 4036-4040 commenced: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:27:56 -0500 Voting on Proposals 4036-4040 concluded: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:27:56 -0500 Num. Type Proposer AI Title RESULT F A - * 4036 Dem Oerjan 2 72 hours for Holidays 4037 Ord Oerjan 1 Clarify Rule 1596 (Debt) 4038 Ord Oerjan 1 Fix Rule 1747 (Pardoning L... 4039 Ord Elysion 1 Satiric Ballads 4040 Dem Oerjan 2 Upmutations =========================================================================== Ordinary Democratic 4037 4038 4039 4036 4040 (vacant seat) Taral 2F 2F Elysion 2F 2F 2F Elysion 2A Michael 2F 2F 2F Harlequin 2F F t F F F Oerjan F F Blob Steve 2F 2F lee F F F Michael 2F Palnatoke F F Peekee A A harvel F t 3F 2A,- Novalis 2A 2- Wes 2F 2F Chuck F F lee 2F 2F FOR 6 6 6 19 12 FOR AGAINST 0 0 0 5 3 AGAINST ABSTAIN 0 0 0 0 3 ABSTAIN 0 0 Present Voters 4 4 4 13 11 Voters Quorum? Y Y Y 5/Y 5/Y Quorum? PASSES? Y Y Y Y Y PASSES? [snip] ======================================================================== Judge's Arguments: Well, time is running out and I must make a judgement here. I have become less inclined to view the distinction between "virtual" actions and real actions as relevant to this case. Indeed, with the passage of the Property rules, the Ruleset makes more explicit the actual state of affairs - that people post notifications which have legal consequences. The "acts" that Players commit are the notifications. As Steve has pointed out, this makes the focal point of the judgement the interpretation of R1478's statement, "The Executor of an entity is a Player who is empowered by the Rules to act on behalf of that entity, as if e were that entity." We know that a Zombie is a Player, that this Player is the person who originally registered, and that the Zombie Master is not this Player. When a Zombie Master sends a vote or notification to the Public Forum, indicating that e is doing so on behalf of the Zombie, it is not the Zombie Player who has sent a message to the PF. However, does R1478 require us to deem that the Players has done so? After some reflection (not as much as I would like), it is my opinion that the above quoted phrase does NOT cause such a deeming to take place. It seems to me that the clause "as if e were that entity" is a clarification of the scope of actions which may be done on behalf of the Zombie Player. In other words, it guarantees that the Zombie Master may perform, on behalf of the Zombie, any act that is permitted to the Zombie Player, unless explicitly exlucded by the Rules. One might consider this clause somewhat redundant. However, without that, it would be possible for us to interpret R1478 as granting an Executor the power to act on behalf of an entity without specifying exactly which acts may be so performed, making it necessary for other Rules to make those acts explicit. It would have saved us a lot of trouble if the wording had made the scope of this empowerment clear without tempting us to deem that an action taken by a Master is taken by the Zombie. I do not believe that the above wording forces us into such a deeming. Having perused the archives for messages from Novalis and Harlequin, I find no evidence that either of these Players have posted to the PF since they became Zombies. Since I do not believe that R1478 requires us to deem that posts by Zombie Masters are made by the Zombies themselves, I return a judgement of FALSE in the matter of CFJ1253. ======================================================================== Judge's Evidence: ========================================================================