From - Thu Mar 9 15:12:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au ([131.170.42.16]) by mx6.mindspring.com (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id scfdna.102.37kbi14 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26509 for agora-official-list; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:31:39 GMT Received: from fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (fw-in.serc.rmit.edu.au [131.170.42.1]) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26506 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:31:36 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id BAA42362 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:45:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from msuacad.morehead-st.edu(147.133.1.1) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au via smap (V2.1) id xma042360; Fri, 10 Mar 00 01:45:21 +1100 Received: (from mpslon01@localhost) by msuacad.morehead-st.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id JAA25466 for agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:30:34 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Slone Message-Id: <200003091430.JAA25466@msuacad.morehead-st.edu> Subject: OFF: CFJ 1199 Judged FALSE by Crito To: agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (agora-official) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 9:30:32 EST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Sender: owner-agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au Precedence: bulk Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: scfdna.102.37kbi14 ============================== CFJ 1199 ============================== The Rules required the Clerk of the Courts to dismiss CFJ 1198. ======================================================================== Called by: Murphy Judge: Crito Judgement: FALSE Judge selection: Eligible: Anthony, Blob, Chuck, Crito, Elysion, Palnatoke, Peekee, Sherlock, Steve, Wes, elJefe, harvel, lee, t Not eligible: Caller: Murphy - - Oerjan Harlequin Michael Novalis Schneidster ======================================================================== History: Called by Murphy 27 Feb 2000 14:28:22 -0800 Assigned to Oerjan: 27 Feb 2000 22:24:22 -0500 Oerjan makes emself 29 Feb 2000 18:21:32 +0100 ineligible: Reassigned to Crito: 29 Feb 2000 15:47:55 -0500 Judged FALSE by Crito: 06 Mar 2000 14:44:00 -0500 Judgement published: As of this message ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: Rule 1830 (No Compulsion of Judges) attempts to require the dismissal of this CFJ. But by whom? It appears that the Judge cannot: * Rule 1565 (Dismissal of a CFJ) prohibits a Judge from dismissing except for reasons stated by Rule 1565 itself * Rule 1565 takes precedence over Rule 1830 * Rule 1830's requirement cannot be equated with any of the reasons stated by Rule 1565 itself It has been claimed that the Clerk of the Courts cannot, either. Is this true? Some CFJs, at least, can be dismissed by the CotC: * Rule 1562 (Excess CFJs) permits the CotC to dismiss excess CFJs * Rule 1868 (Selecting a Judge) requires the CotC to assign all CFJs to Judges * However, Rule 1562 takes precedence over Rule 1868 Now consider CFJ 1198, which is clearly targeted by Rule 1830: * Rule 1830 requires dismissal * Rule 1868 prohibits dismissal by the CotC * However, Rule 1830 takes precedence over Rule 1868 so the Rules *could* require the CotC to dismiss, Rule 1868 notwithstanding. Since the Rules could require the CotC to dismiss, but could not require the Judge to dismiss, the natural interpretation of Rule 1830 is that its requirement does indeed target the CotC. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: Statement of CFJ 1198 Peekee violated Rule 1809 when he failed to vacate the Payment Order denominate as avt583 when he determined, in the course of Judging CFJ 1193, that the Order in question was improperly issued. Rule 1830/0 (Power=1) No Compulsion of Judges No valid Order to Compel may be directed to a Judge, or may require the performance of any duty required of Player by the virtue of that Player being a Judge. Any such Order is invalid. Any CFJ alleging that a Judge has failed to perform a duty of a judicial nature shall be dismissed. Rule 1565/7 (Power=1) Dismissal of a CFJ A Judge must dismiss a CFJ if one of the following is true of it: i) It contains no clearly-identifiable Statement. ii) Its Statement can not logically admit to either being TRUE or FALSE. iii) Its Statement does not relate to a matter relevant to the Rules. iv) Its Statement fails to comply with the Rules. v) It lacks standing, as defined elsewhere. vi) After a reasonable effort by the Judge to obtain all relevant information, no determination can be made of the truth or falsity of its Statement. The Judge does this by notifying the CotC of the CFJ's dismissal, and the reasons e is doing so. Dismissals are only legal when made for the reasons listed in this Rule. Dismissal occurs when the CotC is notified of a legal dismissal. As soon as possible after being notified of a legal dismissal, the CotC must post to the Public Forum a notice of the dismissal and the Judge's reasons for doing so. If the dismissal, upon appeal, is subsequently set aside, then that CFJ is no longer dismissed. It shall be considered again and can not again be legally dismissed for the same reasons. A Judge who dismisses a CFJ before the end of the assigned deliberation period shall receive a Judicial Salary of 20 Stems. Rule 1562/5 (Power=1) Excess CFJs The Clerk of the Courts shall dismiss without prejudice any CFJ made by a person who has previously made five or more CFJs during that Nomic Week. Such a CFJ is called an "excess CFJ". A Player who submits an excess CFJ commits the Class 1 Infraction of Excess CFJing, to be reported by the Clerk of the Courts. If the Clerk of the Courts fails to dismiss an excess CFJ, and instead assigns it to a Judge, then the CFJ shall not be dismissed for being an excess CFJ and shall be Judged (or dismissed) exactly as any other CFJ. Failing to dismiss an excess CFJ is the Class 2 Infraction of Allowing Excess CFJing, to be reported by the Justiciar. Rule 1868/1 (Power=1) Selecting a Judge Whenever there is an open Call for Judgement to which no Player has been assigned as its Judge, the Clerk of the Court shall, as soon as possible after being made aware of this condition, select a Player to be assigned as its Judge. This selection shall be made from amongst all those Players eligible to serve as the Judge of that CFJ. Once selected as the Judge of a CFJ, that Player remains the Judge of that CFJ until e is Recused from that CFJ or becomes ineligible to Judge that particular CFJ. The Clerk shall announce the identity of the Player who is assigned to Judge a CFJ as soon as possible after the selection is made. A CFJ is "open" if it has neither been dismissed nor judged, or if there is an outstanding judicial motion pertaining to that CFJ which has been neither granted nor denied. A CFJ which is not open is closed. ======================================================================== Judge Crito's Arguments: First off, if the statement of CFJ1198 does not fall within the scope of R1830, then the above is trivially false (it is not an Excess CFJ), so I feel it is fair to save myself some time by stipulating that CFJ1198 alleges a failure to perform a duty of a judicial nature (it does seem fairly obvious anyway, IMO). Secondly, R1565 states "A dismissal is only legal when made for the reasons listed in this Rule". I refer the reader to the Rule text as quoted in the CFJ posting and note that the statement of CFJ1198 does not fall within any of the reasons listed, except possibly #4 "It's Statement fails to comply with the Rules". If the statement of CFJ1198 does not meet this criterium, then the statement of CFJ1199 is false, since *no one* would be permitted to dismiss CJF1198, as R1830 is the only Rule which attempts to require the dismissal and it is trumped by R1565. If the statement of CFJ1198 *does* meet this criterium, then the statement of CFJ1199 is also false, since that would permit the Judge to dismiss CFJ1198, eliminating any requirement for the CotC to do so. Therefore, I hereby enter a judgement of FALSE. ======================================================================== -- Michael Slone - http://vir.fclib.org/~harvel/ Now feebly commence a sentence. -- Gertrude Stein