========================================================================== CFJ 1114 The message I sent to the discussion forum, declaring my presence on the recent Proposals 3825 and 3826, is valid. ========================================================================== Called by: Peekee Judge: Blob Judgement: FALSE Judge selection: Eligible: Andre, Blob, Chuck, Crito, elJefe, General Chaos, Kolja. A, lee, Morendil, Murphy, Steve Not eligible: Caller: Peekee Barred: - Had their turn: Ørjan, Macross Already served: - Defaulted: - By request: - On Hold: Ørjan ========================================================================== History: Called by Peekee: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:45:07 PST Assigned to Blob: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:17:32 +1100 Judged FALSE by Blob: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:17:13 +1100 Judgement published: as of this message ========================================================================== Caller's Arguments: Firstly the Vote Collector of these Proposals received my declaration through the discussion forum. Thus satisfying rule 1715. However rule 1764 states that, "Any other Rule to the contrary notwithstanding, the casting of any votes, or the declaration of Presence, by Voting Entities on Proposals, Elections or Referenda, may only be achieved by sending a message to the Public Forum." And by this rule 1764 would take precedence over rule 1715. Only for reasons of if the vote was valid by who it was received by. However I believe that rule 1764 by the virtue of allowing or disallowing votes, changes whether or not a proposal has met Quorum. Now rule 1715 also states that, "This Rule takes precedence over other Rules which determine Quorum or whether a Proposal, Election or Referendum has met Quorum." And so by this rule 1717 takes precedence over rule 1764, causing a contradiction. Now considering Rule 1030 If two or more Rules with the same Power conflict with one another, then the Rule with the lower Number takes precedence. If at least one of the Rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another Rule (or type of Rule) or takes precedence over another Rule (or type of Rule), then such provisions shall supercede the numerical method for determining precedence. If all of the Rules in conflict explicitly say that their precedence relations are determined by some other Rule for determining precedence relations, then the determinations of the precedence determining Rule shall supercede the numerical method for determining precedence. If two or more Rules claim to take precedence over one another or defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs. In this case I believe the last paragraph comes into force, and so rule 1715 takes precedence over rule 1764 for all contradictions between the two rules. In particular a declaration of presence is valid if sent to the collector of votes for a given proposal, and so does not necessarily have to be sent to a public forum. Secondly, if for whatever reason the argument above does not hold, making declaration valid only if sent to a public forum. I believe that my message did satisfy being sent to a public forum. For the following reasons Rule 478 states Sending a message, by any medium or combination of media, to every Active Player, is equivalent to sending it to the Public Forum, provided that the message bears a clear indication that it is intended to be a message to the Public Forum, and it is verifiable that the message was in fact sent to every Active Player. I believe that my declaration was sent to every active player, and also that this is verifiable. Also as (for the reasons of the above argument failing) such a message has to be sent to a public forum to be valid. This would give a clear indication that it was indeed intended for a public forum. Further evidence also suggests that people though the message was intended for a public forum. People not realizing themselves that it had been sent to public forum told me that the message should be posted to a public forum. Surely they would not tell me to send the message to a public forum, if it was not clear to them that it was intended to be sent to a public forum. Also note that nearly all declarations such as the one I sent arrive at a public forum (sooner or later). This would also suggest that my message was intended for a public forum. ========================================================================== Judge's Arguments: [This is a joint opinion, authored by Blob and General Chaos, to apply to both CFJ 1114 and CFJ 1115. We are of the opinion that the Statements of both CFJs are, for all intents and purposes, equivalent.] With respect to Peekee's first argument that R1715 claims to take precedence over R1764, we are presented with the issue of interpreting the clause: This Rule takes precedence over other Rules which determine Quorum or whether a Proposal, Election or Referendum has met Quorum. Now Peekee argues that R1764 affects whether a Proposal has met Quorum, and thus falls under this clause. Now strictly speaking he may be correct. The existence of R1764 may affect the validity of certain messages purporting to be votes or declarations of presence, which in turn could affect whether a given proposal achieves Quorum; but the argument need not stop there. By this reasoning, Rule 1715 takes precedence over Rule 1664, to choose a rule arbitrarily, because the guidelines as to whether or not a Rebellion succeeds may affect the number of Indulgences a Player has, which may affect whether he becomes Lawless, which in turn may affect the number of Players registered at the time a Proposal is distributed, which will determine Quorum for that Proposal. To argue, on this basis, that Rule 1715 takes precedence over Rule 1664 is clearly nonsense. And so we must draw a line with regard to how long a chain of causality we are going to use to determine the meaning of precedence statements like that in Rule 1715. Another possible interpretation of this case is to say that Rules 879 and 1715 alone determine Quorum in this instance, and that Rule 1764 merely affects the circumstances which these rules use to make this determination. We judge that this is also a valid, common-sense interpretation of the Rules, and is in the best interests of the game. It avoids endless complexity in the determination of precedence between rules. By this reasoning, the precedence clause of Rule 1715 cannot be applied to Rule 1764, so the latter, by its own claims, takes precedence, and so Peekee's first argument is incorrect. With respect to Peekee's second argument, that a message that attempts to declare Presence on a Proposal by its own nature contains, by its own nature a "clear indication" of the intent that that message be a Public Forum Message, requires us to interpret Rule 478's "alternative media" paragraph, and specifically what is necessary for a message to "bear a clear indication that it is intended to be a message to the Public Forum". Peekee argues that, because declarations of Presence must legally be posted to a Public Forum to be effective, any Player who communicates a declaration of Presence necessarily intended that that communication be posted to a Public Forum, even if e did not actually send it to a designated Public Forum. In short, Peekee asks us to construe Rule 478's alternative media paragragh so as to allow inference of intent from conduct. We admit that this reading of Rule 478 is not irrational, and is indeed not without merit. However, we do not believe that this reading is compelled by the language of the Rule. We further note that there is substantial Game Custom already in place that weighs against this reading. Additionally, we contend that it is against the best interest of the Game to adopt this policy, since Officers are not generally in the habit of reading the primary discussion forum with any consistent degree of diligence, and generally operate on the reliance that no Official communications will be thereby communicated. We therefore elect to reject Peekee's proposed interpretation. Instead, we choose to interpret Rule 478's requirement of a "clear indication" as requiring an explicit declaration that the message is intended to be a Public Forum message. This interpretation is consistent with the Rule's text, and further is in harmony with longstanding Game Custom. Since it is evident that Peekee's message contains no such declaration, we need not reach the factual questions of whether Peekee actually had such an intent, or whether the message in question was sent to every Player. Because we have ruled that Rule 1764 is successful in requiring declarations of Presence be sent to a Public Forum, and that Rule 478 requires messages being sent to the Public Forum by distribution to all Players other than by a designated Public Forum medium bear an explicit declaration of intent, and have found that Peekee's message lacked such a declaration, we conclude that the Statements of CFJs 1114 and 1115 are both FALSE. ==========================================================================