From owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Thu Sep 26 11:03:59 1996 Received: from greta.teleport.com (greta.teleport.com [192.108.254.20]) by Shamino.quincy.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09045 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:03:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24178; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by greta.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:02:11 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA24169 for nomic-official-outgoing; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk (exim@heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.32.11]) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24155 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albatross.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.0.96] (exim) by heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 0.52 #2) id E0v6Isz-000059-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:02:01 +0100 Received: from mn200 by albatross.cl.cam.ac.uk with local (Exim 0.55 #1) id E0v6Isx-0005hw-00; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:01:59 +0100 From: Michael Norrish To: nomic-official@teleport.com Subject: OFF: (CotC): CFJ 879 judged FALSE Message-Id: Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:01:59 +0100 Sender: owner-nomic-official@teleport.com Reply-To: nomic-discussion@teleport.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 2875 Lines: 80 Status: RO Morendil will receive the standard judicial salary at the end of the Nomic Week if this is not appealed. ====================================================================== CFJ 879 "If Proposal 2692 is Adopted then Rule 114 will prevent it from taking effect." ====================================================================== Judge: Morendil Judgement: FALSE Eligible: Andre, Chuck, Coren, elJefe, favor, KoJen, Michael, Morendil, Murphy, Oerjan, Steve, Swann, Vanyel Not eligible: Caller: Zefram Barred: - On hold: - ====================================================================== History: Called by Zefram, Tue, 24 Sep 1996 17:02:03 +0100 (BST) Assigned to Morendil, Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:53:42 +0100 Judged FALSE, Thu, 26 Sep 1996 17:51:34 +0100 Published, as of this message ====================================================================== Judgement: FALSE Reasons and arguments: I myself argued that if somehow the last Rule Change in Proposal 2692 were prevented from having effect while all others were effective (which, given the very weird situation Proposal 2692 creates, might not be unlikely), we would be left with Indices of equal values. This, I stated, had the effect that since no Voting Index could be greater than any Adoption Index, adoption of further Proposals would become impossible under Rule 955 ("Votes Required to Adopt a Proposal"). However, closer scrutiny of that Rule reveals that the opposite situation obtains : _all_ Proposals would _pass_, no matter what their VI, since both AI and VI would in all cases be "equal" to Unanimity. There is therefore no way that Proposal 2692 could have effects conflicting with 114, thus my Judgement of FALSE. (Maybe we should in fact adopt 2692; if I am proven correct, we have a way to get all our favorites Proposals adopted with no problem at all!) However, I believe that even if _some_ Proposal were to accidentally make adoption of further Proposals impossible, that Proposal would not be prevented from taking effect by Rule 114, since even in such a situation, a) there would still be Rules left with MI=1 b) the effectiveness of Non-Proposed Rule Changes would not be hindered. Rule 114 makes provisions as to the impermissibility of adopting _Rule Changes_, not Proposals. If we need a safeguard against situations where Proposing, or adopting Proposals might become impossible, I recommend that Rule 114 be amended - the current version is not that. ====================================================================== (Caller's) Arguments: Whoever ends up Judging this, please consider the question of exactly what effects the Proposal would have, rather than merely answering the Statement. ======================================================================