From - Thu May 25 15:10:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: from gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au ([131.170.42.16]) by day.mail.mindspring.net (Mindspring Mail Service) with ESMTP id siq6ug.qpn.37kbi66 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04052 for agora-official-list; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:10:40 GMT Received: from fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (fw-in.serc.rmit.edu.au [131.170.42.1]) by gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04049 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 12:10:37 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA80301 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 22:18:14 +1000 (EST) Received: from msuacad.morehead-st.edu(147.133.1.1) by fw.serc.rmit.edu.au via smap (V2.1) id xma080297; Thu, 25 May 00 22:18:03 +1000 Received: (from mpslon01@localhost) by msuacad.morehead-st.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id IAA18566 for agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au; Thu, 25 May 2000 08:15:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Slone Message-Id: <200005251215.IAA18566@msuacad.morehead-st.edu> Subject: OFF: CFJ 1212 Judged TRUE To: agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au (agora-official) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 8:15:50 EDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Sender: owner-agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au Precedence: bulk Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: siq6ug.qpn.37kbi66 ============================== CFJ 1212 ============================== Wes became the High Oligarch on Wed, 3 May 2000 12:48:35 +0300. ======================================================================== Called by: t Judge: Elysion Judgement: TRUE Judge selection: Eligible: Crito, Elysion, Sherlock Not eligible: Caller: t Barred: - Had eir turn: Chuck, Kelly, Murphy, Palnatoke, Steve, Taral, Wes, harvel, lee, t Already served: Peekee Defaulted: Harlequin By request: Blob, Michael On Hold: - Zombie: Anthony, Harlequin, Novalis, Schneidster ======================================================================== History: Called by t 04 May 2000 14:10:21 +0300 Assigned to Peekee: 04 May 2000 08:14:28 -0400 Judged TRUE by Peekee: 07 May 2000 16:38:18 +0100 Judgement published: 07 May 2000 11:55:36 -0400 Appealed by Steve: 08 May 2000 13:27:46 +1000 Appealed by Taral: 08 May 2000 13:29:14 -0500 Appealed by Elysion: 08 May 2000 16:53:56 -0400 Appeal assigned: 09 May 2000 15:38:01 -0400 harvel (C) moves to OVERTURN 13 May 2000 20:04:09 -0400 and reassign: lee (S) moves to OVERTURN and 13 May 2000 20:01:29 -0500 reassign: Reassigned to Crito (J): 18 May 2000 21:35:00 -0400 Crito (J) moves to OVERTURN 19 May 2000 16:41:16 -0400 and reassign: Appeal decision published: 19 May 2000 21:24:17 -0400 Reassigned to Elysion: 20 May 2000 09:02:45 -0400 Judged TRUE by Elysion: 24 May 2000 20:52:59 -0400 Judgement published: As of this message ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: Rule 1937 defines how Vacancies in the Oligarchy are filled. It states that when there is no High Oligarch "The Low Oligarchs select a Middle Oligarch to become High Oligarch." In May 1 00:00:00 GMT, the monthly rotation happened (Rule 1938), leaving the seat of High Oligrach open. As required by Rule 1937, the Low Oligarchs harvel, Michael and t then announced their selection. Wes was chosen to be the High Oligarch by an unanimous vote. Unfortunately, Rule 1938 doesn't define clearly the precise time when Wes became the High Oligarch. Three possibilities come to mind: 1) When the required majority has been attained. In this case, this happened at Wed, 3 May 2000 09:49:12 +0100, as can be seen from the evidence. 2) When all Low Oligarchs have announced their selection. In this case, this happened at Wed, 3 May 2000 12:48:35 +0300. 3) After the selection deadline of three days has passed, which in this case happened at Thu, 4 May 2000 00:00:00 GMT. In any case, even if 2) or 3) should be found to be true, apparently all Oligarchs are still required to announce their selections, even if it would have no effect. This fact does give some support to the statement. However, the Rule only mentions what should be done when a selection requiring a majority vote does not have a decisive result, not what happens when it does. I attach all three Low Oligarchs' announcement as well as the pertinent Rule (R1937) as evidence. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: harvel's announcement --------------------- Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:35:06 EDT From: Michael Slone Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au To: agora-business Subject: BUS: Oligarch selection (Hoping this works) I hereby select Wes to become High Oligarch. -- Low Oligarch harvel What a fabulous "reward"! Why not add the "reward" of not being thrown into gaol, while we're at it? -- Blob, in agora-discussion Michael's announcement ---------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:49:12 +0100 (BST) From: Michael Norrish Reply-To: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au To: agora-official@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au Subject: OFF: Oligarch selection I select Wes to become High Oligarch. Low Oligarch Michael. t's announcement ---------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:48:35 +0300 (EEST) From: t To: Agora business Subject: oligarchism I select Wes to become the High Oligarch. Wes has been chosen to become the High Oligarch, with 3 votes in favor of em and 0 votes in favor of Elysion. There is now a Middle Oligarch vacancy. Now, the question is, whether Wes became the High Oligarch just now or already when Michael made eir selection which guaranteed that Wes would be chosen. Doesn't matter in this situation but it might in some other circumstances. Does anybody want to cfj? tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttteemu korkiakangas http://www.iki.fi/scurra/ TTTTTT scurra@iki.fi Rule 1937 --------- Rule 1937/0 (Power=2) Filling Vacancies in the Oligarchy Vacancies in the Oligarchy are filled as follows, in order. 1) If there is no High Oligarch: a) The Low Oligarchs select a Middle Oligarch to become High Oligarch. b) If there are no Low Oligarchs, then the Speaker selects a Middle Oligarch to become High Oligarch. c) If there are no Middle Oligarchs, then the Speaker selects a Low Oligarch to become High Oligarch. d) If there are no Middle Oligarchs or Low Oligarchs, then the Speaker conducts three Auctions: one for High Oligarch, one for the two Middle Oligarchs, and one for as many Low Oligarch positions for which no Auction is already in progress. 2) If a Middle Oligarch position is vacant: a) The High Oligarch selects a Low Oligarch to become a Middle Oligarch. b) If there are no Low Oligarchs, then the High Oligarch conducts a single Auction for L+M positions in the Oligarchy, where L and M are, respectively, the number of vacant Low and Middle Oligarch positions for which no Auction is already in progress. The High Oligarch then selects M of the new Oligarchs to be Middle Oligarchs. 3) If a Low Oligarch position is vacant: a) The High Oligarch conducts an Auction for the number of Low Oligarchy positions for which no Auction is already in progress. Any selection required by this Rule must be announced within three days. A Player may not change eir selection once e has announced it. A Player required to make selection who fails to do so within three days commits the Class 2 Infraction of Oligardiness, which any Player may detect and report. Selections performed by two or more Oligarchs are by majority vote. If a single Oligarch who is required to make a selection fails to do so, or if a selection to be performed by majority vote does not produce a decisive result within three days, then the Oligarchs' selections (if any) are cancelled and the Speaker is required to make the selection instead. ======================================================================== Judge Peekee's Arguments: I hereby Jusge this TRUE. As wes was selected by the other Oligarchs at such a time when then had all given their choice. As described in 2) of the callers arguement. ======================================================================== Justice lee's Arguments: agora-discussion@gecko.serc.rmit.edu.au,Internet writes: >>Judge Peekee's Arguments: >> >>I hereby Jusge this TRUE. >> >>As wes was selected by the other Oligarchs at such a time when then had >>all >>given their choice. As described in 2) of the callers arguement. I am bothered that the Peekee made a jusgement and not a judgement. I am also bothered that e did not present any arguments and relied on the caller's cursory arguments. As harvel has shown, there are easy counterargument that should at least be presented and answered. I think this CFJ deserves more consideration. I move to overturn and reassign. ======================================================================== Justice Crito's Arguments: I find I have nothing significant to add to the statements made by the previous Justices. Therefore, I simply move to Overturn CFJ1212 and have it reassigned. ======================================================================== Justice harvel's Arguments: I am inclined to move to overturn the Judgement to FALSE. Consider the following. Rule 1937 (already included in the Caller's evidence) indicates that if a selection to be performed by majority vote does not produce a decisive result within three days, all selections are cancelled. It seems that the Rule might be interpreted as saying that the Middle Oligarch selected becomes a High Oligarch as soon as the selection produces a decisive result. This would have happened at 3 May 2000 09:49:12 +0100, making the Statement evidently FALSE. However, this argument is not sufficiently strong, in my opinion, for an Appellate Opinion. Further, the primary task of the Justices is to determine whether the original Judgement should stand. It is the opinion of this Justice that the original Judgement should not stand. The original Judge gave no arguments. Although arguments are not legally required, Calling for Judgement on a Statement constitutes "proof of the existence of a dispute" (R991). A good Judgement will then consider counterarguments, such as the (admittedly simple) one given above, and will provide reasons for those who might put forward such arguments (whether such arguments are put forward or not) to agree with the Judgement. Therefore, I move to OVERTURN and reassign this CFJ. ======================================================================== Judge Elysion's Arguments: Rule 1937 does not specify when the selection caused Wes to become High Oligarch. There are three likely possibilities: a) When the selection cannot be changed by further selections by the remaining Oligarchs b) When all Oligarchs have selected c) When 3 days have passed If only 2 Low Oligarchs have selected, and both selected Wes, the third is still required to make a selection, even though the group selection is already determined. Thus, the selection process does not end at (a). Rule 1937 provides for two ways to end the process, (b) and (c) (whichever occurs first). In this particular case, (b) occurred first. The relevant phrase of the algorithm is "The Low Oligarchs select a Middle Oligarch to become High Oligarch." Clearly, after the selection process is completed and a Middle Oligarch is chosen, e becomes High Oligarch. Although it could be argued that rule 1937 never says when the selection causes the Middle Oligarch to become High Oligarch, it is this judge's opinion that the most reasonable interpretation of rule 1937 is that the change occurs immediately after the process is completed. I therefore judge this statement TRUE. ======================================================================== Judge Peekee's Evidence: ======================================================================== Justice lee's Evidence: ======================================================================== Justice Crito's Evidence: ======================================================================== Justice harvel's Evidence: Rule 991/3 (Power=2) Invoking Judgement Any Player who seeks formal resolution of any dispute pertaining to this Nomic shall be permitted to request such by submitting a Call for Judgement to the Clerk of the Courts. For the purpose of this and other Rules, the submission of a Call for Judgement shall constitute proof of the existence of a dispute. Any document submitted to the Clerk of the Courts and which is clearly marked as a Call for Judgement is a Call for Judgement. The Clerk shall distribute the text of a Call for Judgement, along with any additional material submitted by the Caller (including, but not limited to, Arguments and Evidence) not later than the time e announces the identity of the first Judge assigned to Judge it. ======================================================================== Judge Elysion's Evidence: ======================================================================== Clerk of the Courts harvel -- Michael Slone